Labels, titles and all that jazz
so instead of making that effin streetlight thread even longer i thought id say this in a new one
what exactly is the deffinition of ska
this whole defining it thing has turned into quite the skatastrophe
and i dont know if we really need one
i dont care if people think i listen to bob marley and new found lory when i say ska
i consider anything with a happy off beat that can get my legs goin ska (horns help alot too)
what exactly is the deffinition of ska
this whole defining it thing has turned into quite the skatastrophe
and i dont know if we really need one
i dont care if people think i listen to bob marley and new found lory when i say ska
i consider anything with a happy off beat that can get my legs goin ska (horns help alot too)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Lyons on -
Ska has to have a singular definition.
It has to.
It's lack of definition, of scope, is what I feel has held ska back as a genre.
In order to grow and continue to thrive, you have to have the ability to attract new listeners
by saying "Ska is...."
What is reggae?
What is bluegrass?
What is blues?
If I take you to a bluegrass concert, chances are Motley Crue will not be performing, right?
As someone who markets ska to people who've never heard of ska before, I must have a clear, precise definition of what ska is. So that is I post that there is a ska show at The El Rey Theatre, that person
will have a reasonable idea of what to expect.
So what is Ska, in my opinion.
Ska came from Jamaica. Therefore it should retain some Jamaican inspirations.
Jamaican Ska is played on the off-beat. So any contemporary ska must be played likewise.
Listen to my podcast and you will quickly realize that the rest of the world has moved on from the
"pop-punk-with-horns" sound of the 1990's.
We should too.
World Ska Radio
http://ca_ska.podomatic.com
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Permalink Reply by Brixton Beat on -
Horns do help, but aren't necessary, and by "happy" I suppose you mean upbeat.
From the all-knowing Internet...
WHAT IS SKA?
Ska can basically be explained as dance music that sounds like fast reggae, though reggae came from ska. From there ska music is split into a few different styles:
Traditional (Trad) Ska - Original ska is a generally upbeat Jamaican hybrid of r&b, jazz, and mento/calypso, with guitar and/or horns/piano/organ accenting the offbeat (the "and" in 1-and-2-and-3-and-4, with drumbeat on "2" and "4"). - Started late 1950's in Jamaica.
2-Tone Ska - A usually faster, British rock/pop/punk influenced version of trad ska, rock steady or reggae. There might be less horns than trad, and more rock oriented drumming. - Started late 1970's in England.
Third Wave Ska - Adapted from 2-tone ska, with more of an American rock/pop influence, and usually more use of horns. Also, often combining the ska beat with various other genres of music. - Started mid 1980's in the US.
Ska-Punk - Punk, pop-punk, hardcore or hard rock, influenced by third wave or 2-tone style ska. - Started late 1970's in England.
Here are some bands/artists involved with the main styles of ska:
Trad Ska - The Skatalites, Desmond Dekker, Hepcat, The Trojans
2-Tone Ska - The Specials, Madness, The Selecter, Bad Manners
Third Wave Ska - The Toasters, Bim Skala Bim, Donkey Show, Regatta Sixty-Nine
Ska-Punk - Operation Ivy, The Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Reel Big Fish, Capdown
WHAT ARE THE "WAVES" OF SKA?
Ska can also be broken up into three main "waves" which are separated by differences in style, world location, and brakes in the popularity of the music. Some confusion often develops when people use "waves" to describe the sound, instead of the era. For instance some might say Hepcat plays first wave ska, or some might not call The Slackers a Third Wave band, though technically they are because they began within that timeframe.
1st Wave - The first era of ska, which lasted in Jamaica from the late 1950's till the mid-1960's.
2nd Wave - Also known as the 2-Tone Era (taken from the name of the main British ska record label of the time "2-Tone"), because of the prolific style of music that many of the bands shared. This wave started in England with bands like The Specials and Madness. It lasted from the late 1970's to the early 1980's.
3rd Wave - This era developed roots in the early 1980's in The US with many underground bands including The Toasters, Fishbone, and The Untouchables. From there the popularity and style of the music shifted and fluctuated with several supposed "sub-waves". It lasted from the mid 1980's to the late 1990's.
Now ska music has reached all over the world, with many different styles, variations and innovations.
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Permalink Reply by Ska Joe on -
Here is my stab at it..
First off it is important to note that Ska is a genre of music and not a style of music.
Simply put, Ska is any style or styles of music combined with the ska beat/rhythm that is usually created by playing upbeats on the guitar. This ska beat is the back bone of ska and is what makes ska, ska.
Even traditional ska was just calypso and other already existing music style with the addition of the ska beat. A big difference in traditional ska vs. 3rd wave ska is not just that the ska beat is being added to different music styles but also in 3rd wave the ska beat is only played in sections of a song. So the music is still ska, it is just less ska then traditional songs were the entire song has a consistent ska beat. This is why some 3rd wave bands are better described as punk-ska instead of ska-punk.
When talking to people who have never heard of ska I usually just say it's a genre of music from Jamaica which Reggae came from and tell them to just picture reggae but more upbeat and that it is occasionally mixed with various music styles. Bottom line, it is dance music from Jamaica with love.
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Permalink Reply by Brixton Beat on
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A big difference in traditional ska vs. 3rd wave ska is not just that the ska beat is being added to different music styles but also in 3rd wave the ska beat is only played in sections of a song.
Really, it's a question of, "is it ska with elements of punk, or punk with elemets of ska?" I guess it all comes down to percentages... 80% ska, 20% punk = punk-influenced SKA (3rd wave or 2-tone), but 80% punk, 20% ska = ska-influenced PUNK (ska-punk). 80/20, 51/49, whatever. Same goes for mixing any music genres.
The problem obviously is it's hard to really measure this stuff. To me, if you've been listening to this music for a while, and a wide enough variety of it, you can just tell the difference.
It's not life-and-death, but some of us do like clearification.
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Permalink Reply by Spin on -
ska as a genre has kept its tittle through 40 or so years
look at punk when a new punk band comes out that sounds different, instead of revoking their punk title that add another word to that title like neo-punk or punk metaL or whatever
the casualties sound nothing like anti-flag but no one is more punk than the other
cant streetlight be ska too would it be to bad for them to share a title or is that too damaging to your ska rep
they arent neccesarily upbeat but niether is reel big fish
it gets your feet going and it brings more people to the genre
come for the punk stay for the ska sort of thing
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Permalink Reply by Ska Joe on
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Streetlight dose has a handful of ska in their music even though the mass majority of their music is really just some awesome punk. They are for sure more of a punk band than a ska band but still are concidered part of the ska scene. I think the real problem is most bands don't play just one style of music and their songs are also a mix of various styles and genres. This is good musically but obviously causes confusion when trying to say what kind of band they are.
Once you start adding variety to life things dont fall into generic titles. Bob Marley played pure reggae so it is easy to say his band is a reggae band. Bands like Madness play ska songs, new wave songs, britt pop songs and a variety of other stuff so cant really call them just a ska band. (well the new album is all ska, be before that.) Yet the still fell into the "ska" category even when they had only one ska song (one step beyond) and one poppy song that was up beat but still not ska (our house).
There really is no clear way to labels band that are not pure one style. I think that two factors commonly used when it comes to calling a band a ska band or not is 1.) if they have a decent amount of ska in their playlist and 2.) if they have been accepted into a ska scene.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Lyons on
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Clearification?
Is that part of your strategery?
>B^)
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Permalink Reply by Brixton Beat on
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Wow, people write like they're drunk/five/not too familiar with English on here all the time and no one calls them out.
But, yeah misspelling clarification was part of my strategatory! =P
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Permalink Reply by Brixton Beat on
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I agree with Spin... "ska-punk", "punk-metal", "neo-polka", etc. When talking person to person it's not hard to say a band plays "pop-punk, with some ska and other stuff", or "Brit pop, with some ska, some new wave".
Classifying bands for music stores / music related websites is a different thing. You usually have to be in one category. Too many times I'll be searching a site/service for some SKA, and most of what I find is ska-punk. They should split 'em up and label them as such. Having the defined labels would help out there.
I do see what you're saying. Streetlight IS part of the ska scene, just like Madness is, and The Skatalites are. But, to label them "ska" just because they're in the scene ..now that's madness.
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Permalink Reply by Spin on
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i dont think its half as daft as neo-polka
normally i dont think id give 2 sharts about the label if it werent for preserving 1st and second wave skalook at rock and roll
elvis
beatles
and then outta no where fuckin slayer
how did that get called rock
its like a blood orgy with guitars
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